Create subDAO for Seed Words -- A social word game platform

Greetings Dolly Dali,

Based proposal, going to vote yes for it my frend.

The name could be something catchy like World of words - which translates to good ole WoW :smiley:

What you think

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Heya Dolli,

Have been a lot of fun brainstorming about this the last couple of weeks, and great to see how you formed the proposal in the end.

I do think this is a pretty interesting proposal - as this would be out first official subDAO. The initial thought that we had by subDAOs was mainly around specific working groups for games that were becoming bigger and bigger. Looking back at that, I have to conclude that entrepreneurial spirit as subDAO probably makes much more sense.

One suggestion that I mentioned to you earlier, is that the DAO could easily help with a $500,000 raise (equity or NFTs) - so the DAO has limited to no financial downside.

Obviously; big in favor of this proposal and hope it will pass (pretty sure though).

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Hello,

First of all thanks for your well written proposal. I have no idea about wordgames as I dont play them but I see a lot of them being played around me. I would very much be in favor of doing this and will be voting yes on the proposal. Just a few remarks from my side:

Would it be possible to create a connection with Edenhorde NFT’s (as part of the prize pool) as this could create additional momentum and buzz for both projects. It would also give this a jumpstart into a growing NFT community. Another option would be to have a small part of the revenue stream back to Edenhorde NFT holders. This would also cement the tie in with a thriving NFT community /project and create momentum as that’s not being done so far by anyone

I personally like to invest in teams or people and the proposal and preparation are very telling about your mindset. That puts this over the top for me personaly next to the fact that this also broadens blockchain based gaming to a whole new group of gamers. Very well done!

Regards and again thanks for the proposal

Speedy, you’re my ace, man. I’m taking that input from you and the Admiral on branding to heart. Here’s my thought, let’s keep Seed Words as the branding for the launch event (Seed Words: Season 1). That fits the narrative of Season 1 perfectly. We can keep the Seed Words branding for the minimal viable platform (Phase 2) because that’s going to collect our daily users while we get Season 2+ together, until we launch social media platform and marketplace in Phase 3. If we put off branding for the social media and marketplace platform, we can get input from our creators/community, too. Then, there’s no pressure on what we brand the subDAO–that could be Seed Words or something else. We could even vote on that real quick and give input. Folks, we’re on to something with this collab. Thank you so much everybody. :slight_smile:

-Dolly

tyghh, thanks fren. That’s high praise, and I definitely think we should incorporate Edenhorde and MC holders. I agree 100% with driving value back to $MC and EH and cross-promoting. In fact, the Seed Words: Season 1 content is like a combo of the EH puzzle launch and the Celia Blythe episodes, so I think the fans of one will be fans of another. I would like to nail down the terms of those tie-ins ASAP as a part of the structure of the whole subDAO deal. What did you have in mind for connection with EH NFTs?

–Dolly

Hi!
This is Michael with CitizenX crypto. We’re an early-stage crypto fund and seed investors in Merit Circle.
This is an absolute banger of a proposal, big fan of how thorough this all is.

We’d love to participate in this round to support the Sub-DAO and creation of Seed Words, with up to $250K in investment if the merit circle DAO wishes to outsource some of the work and expand the cap table.

We have invested quite a bit into crypto-native gaming and have vast resources at our disposal to help make Seed Words a success.

We have worked quite closely with the MC DAO and MC team on a number of other projects that the DAO has invested in and would love to be involved in this one as well.

If anyone has any questions about our value add, what we can do for Seed Words, or anything in that genre feel free to ask.

Cheers,
Michael

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Hi Dolly!

Thanks for this proposal - a fun and educational read on the word game sphere. This is obviously thoroughly thought out, and given the risk/reward, I hope to see this pass the voting.

Best of luck!

Well a tie in based on content would probably be a constraint on the Word game but maybe an EH NFT’s as part of the prize pool for the first few events would be awesome.
I’d be willing to donate three EH NFT’s for the first few prize pools. This would generate some additional buzz. But next to that just the shared utility of a revenuestream from a game flowing back to a certain NFT collection in itself would generate a buz for bnoth projects.

Next to that the EH community would kickstart the Seed World community building I think as an active community would sustain the game. Next to that the word gaming cohort is casual and not versed into digital assets but also community engagement as we see it today. This would be a huge opportunity to bring in casual gamerts and expose them to an active community.

This is awesome - and definitely had in mind to integrate EH NFTs on two ways: a) prize pool, b) flex an avatar within the game by connecting a NFT.

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Hi Dolly,

Wow what a proposal both in length and quality, great work! I will happily vote yes and hope to see it pass.

I do agree that branding name could be different but I understand where the thoughts came from with Seed Words. Agree with tyghh and think that incorporating EH NFTs as potential initial prize awards would be great for both EH and Seed Words. Looking forward to seeing how the project develops and the end product.

All the best!

Hi Michael,

Wow! I’m definitely interested. I reached out over email, too. Let’s talk soon. :slight_smile:

–Dollyd

Hahaha, nope, we’re definitely doing an EH tie-in with some word game content plus a story beat! :grinning: Thanks for donating those–that’s super generous, and let’s make the most of it. The protagonist can be an MC gamer w/ EH gear–fits the backstory very well actually. Let’s definitely get the NFT artwork in there. (Do you have a Larrick you could part with?) You know what would be killer and would work with the story is if we had a pencil drawing of a Larrick–like a fan-art drawing a kid would do in a notebook. I’m thinking let’d do a fan-art competition for the drawing. Maybe the winner gets one NFT. Their winning fan art can be the art for the episode, and we can put another EH NFT in the prize pool for that episode. For real, thanks for that willingness to help–I love this tie-in.

I think you’re completely right about role-modeling crypto community for the non-crypto word gamers. I have a kind of ambitious idea for contests as a way to get into the finale for the grand prize. The Seed Words puzzles are Thursday, Friday, and Saturday, so Monday through Wednesday is basically a showcase for everything MC is already doing plus showcasing the creators in the puzzle community. Let me get that calendar out ASAP, run it by the core team and see which folks in the MC fam are able to pitch in to judge a couple of contests. For example, could NDX pick a winner for an art contest? And/or could Celia pick a winner for a short-fiction contest? That way the Seed Words players can see what a fully developed NFT IP / community looks like. LFGGGGGGG!!!

–Dolly

Yep, I love that. Would we be able to do something like have a picture of the protagonist of the story wearing a hat or a hoodie, and when you connect your wallet with EH NFT, the NFT owner can see their NFT on the hoodie/hat? Not sure if that’s feasible…but would be dope.

Hi folks,

Honey had some great questions about whether the word game platform needs a token. I included info on that in my proposal but I deleted that section because the proposal was already too long–the governance forum caps posts at 3400 words or so. Here’s what I wrote…

Token or not token? That is the question…

I’ve thought through a roadmap targeting a native token launch and a roadmap with a long-term plan to remain a subDAO, and I think they both work. But, my personal preference is not to rush a native token for this project. I don’t think the project needs it from a design perspective. I also think word gamers and non-profits would experience the price volatility of a token launch as a psychological barrier to entry, even if they are positioned to benefit from it.

There are significant benefits to Seed Words using $MC as working capital, even as needed in a tokenized Seed Words platform. And those benefits would accrue both to Seed Words and Merit Circle:

  • Seed Words can generate ad revenue and fees that are used to buy $MC to distribute to:
    • Seed Words investors
    • Seed Words subDAO stakers
    • Seed Words community/creators
    • Nonprofits (pledging)
  • Creators should be charging customers in USD/stablecoins for premium content to minimize barriers to entry to the ecosystem
  • Creators should have an option of getting paid in USD or $MC (w/ a premium) to minimize barriers to entry but allow for alignment of interests with Merit Circle
  • Team should be focusing on user growth and happiness until product-market-fit is achieved
  • No redundancy of governance infrastructure and token security means Seed Words can build community from day 1 using that infrastructure
  • Seed Words can continue to raise equity privately or through future DAO proposals, targeted to what the platform actually needs to grow
  • Seed Words can raise equity from the public (or from MC holders) in NFT tranches. Those NFTs can receive a portion of future ad revenue / fees / tokens.
  • NFT-based raises can be themed to match the strategic purpose of a capital raise. If Seed Words is developing a new game, then the corresponding tranche can be themed to that game to give marketing a focus.
  • Other benefits to possible NFT-based equity raise: Less liquid; appeals to long-term holders; can target investor group (e.g. EH/MC holders); trading fees go to MC Marketplace not CEX; etc.
  • The transition to a tokenized economy based in $MC to one based in a native token would be much smoother than transitioning immediately to a native token. While I can’t predict what other subDAO founders would prefer, the possibility of this kind of token transition was a big selling point of the Merit Circle incubation system.

There may come a time when a native token does make more sense, especially if the Seed Words player and creator community demands it to align their incentives with the project. If so, the MC DAO would be airdropped a percentage of the token supply for growing the project to maturity. But I wanted to set the expectation for MC investors that a native token wouldn’t be in the near future.

To zoom out a little on the question of tokens…Because the word game platform is never P2E, the only players that would ever get a token are people who win (either a big tournament or a leaderboard). And you don’t need a native token to do that–just revenue, a treasury, and a way to distribute money to winners. That’s the whole point of the Seed Words: Season 1 event, distributing money to a winner.

The Phase 2 platform itself isn’t actually crypto at all. It’s just a word game app.

But, crypto can come back into play in Phase 3. Not as a way to reward players with crypto, however. As a way to incentivize creators and players to join a two-sided content market. But that’s a different discussion, further down the road, etc.

I will donate a Baba, Larrik and a despicable Gadiran :wink: only Oru wil i not part from.

Once you have set up a wallet for the project let me know ok? I’ll send them there.

And again thanks for your work on this :smiley:

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Henlo,

I don’t understand what the benefit to MC is.

“Seed Words can generate ad revenue and fees that are used to buy $MC to distribute to”

Can? Will? You buy and send to < people >, who then sell?

I understand so little.

Is this proposal just a way to find funding via the Merit Circle ecosystem? How does this pump my bags? Need less big words, more direct answers and hopium.

Honey

Meow!

Thank you @DollyDali for this proposal!

We are always fans of the Merit Circle DAO building more products, as long as they are beneficial to the DAO and its core aim - to accrue value to the MC token and its stakers/holders. Whenever we consider a proposal we ask ourselves one important question - how does this directly benefit the MC token and its stakers/holders, and does this benefit outweigh the cost? Usually the answer to this question is enough to decide whether or not we believe in a proposal.

Having read through your proposal and the three phases, it seems likely that future proposals will be needed for further direction due to the extent and complexity of this initial proposal. Also due to the fact that you are only considering a raise for the first two phases currently, it makes sense to just focus on those for the time being, and further proposals can be used to guide further expansion.

If we are boiling down your first two phases into their simplest forms then this is what we have gathered from your proposal:

Phase 1

  • Formation of a ‘Seed Words’ SubDAO with its own budget and investors

  • A 25 part word game tournament with a grand prize of $100k at the end

  • Featuring a narrative arc (storyline) which could be related to Edenhorde

  • Revenue coming from adverts and tournament entry fees

  • Estimated cost of $275k (inc. the $100k grand prize)

Phase 2

  • Continuation of the tournaments if successful (potentially 2-3 a year)
  • Hosting a gaming platform on the SubDAO’s own website (MC website?)
  • Build more SubDAO-owned games which could require further capital raises
  • Hosting other companies games (for a fee)
  • Run adverts on this website (for revenue)
  • Partner with other game studios to expand and move into Phase 3
  • Estimated cost of $225k (not inc. any grand prizes similar to Phase 1)

Please let us know if we have misunderstood any aspect of the initial phases or if we have missed out some key details.

So now we ask ourselves the initial question of how this benefits the MC token and holders. From the proposal it appears almost all revenue will be drawn from:

  1. Advertising
  2. Entry fees to tournaments (please clarify who is paying and who can enter for free)
  3. Hosting fees
  4. Subscription fees to the SubDAO’s game website if we include one (please clarify if there will be a subscription fee or if it will be free to play)

It is said in your latest comment that this revenue will be used to buy MC and distributed to Seed Words SubDAO investors, Seed Words SubDAO stakers, Seed Words community & creators, and nonprofits.

  • It is clear how this would benefit the SubDAO but how does this benefit MC holders and stakers who aren’t involved in the SubDAO?
  • Won’t the receivers of this revenue distribution just immediately sell the MC, thus negating the buying?
  • Does some revenue get sent back to the main DAO treasury (via MIP-7)?
  • Does some revenue get distributed to MC stakers & EH holders (as was suggested in MIP-10)?
  • Does MIP-7 directly apply to revenue gained by the SubDAO as well?
  • Are SubDAO stakers MC stakers, as you said you don’t currently believe a native token should be used?

You also mentioned in the pros “Potential buy pressure on $MC is potentially large and sustainable”

  • Where does this buy pressure come from and why? Buying MC using revenue and distributing it could just result in the MC being immediately sold.
  • Will MC be needed to enter the tournaments or play the games on the website?
  • Does this buy pressure just come from revenue and MIP-7 (if it applies)?
  • Are we hoping that having a ‘buzz’ around MC will cause people to buy the token?

In terms of the timing, while we would be happy to be proven wrong, it seems unrealistic to be able to launch Phase 1 in just two months. If you want a successful large-scale tournament, then it’s likely marketing and building up hype will take almost as long as that alone, let alone building the infrastructure and narrative to a point where we are happy to launch.

This response isn’t intended to have a negative tone as there is a lot in this proposal that we like, such as the possible inclusion of Edenhorde NFTs, and we think successful tournaments could bring a lot of positive attention to MC as a whole. We also appreciate the effort and thought that has gone into writing this. If executed correctly and with the main MC DAO in mind, we think this could be a strong success for Merit Circle.

Overall, we are very happy to see a proposal to start building MC games, but we need some clarifications on the above questions, as we need to clearly see how this directly benefits MC stakers/holders. As long as we can see the benefit, and ensure that it outweighs the cost, we will be happy to support this proposal with a " Yes ".

Signed with left paw,

Mr. and Mrs. Snuffles
Sad Cat Capital

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Hi again Dolly!

I am positive for the project as such, but based on some of the posts in this thread, I am becoming slightly confused on how the funding will be conducted and how the ownership structure will be set up, including what exposure and ownership MC will have in this project (other than being an advisor/partner).

It is clear that the intention is to raise USD 500k for the purpose of funding phase 1 and 2. Phase 3 is TBD. In the “Summary” section it is proposed that MC allocates funds “up to $500,000” and in the “Budget” section it is in the description of the asterisk (“*”), stated that the funds will be “[d]isbursed by DAO team in monthly instalments”. I read this to imply that the funding will be carried out by MC (or otherwise arranged by MC). The proposal also refers to this being a sub-DAO of MC, which I would read to imply that it would be owned by MC. Therefore my initial thought was that the profits would flow back to MC, i.e. earnings less budget cost items, opex etc. (including certain amount to flow back to founder Dolly), and be handled in accordance with MIP-7 (or any future profit handling scheme that the DAO may implement from time to time).

I think the proposal would benefit of clarifying the following (in addition to the points made by others in previous posts) before this proceeds to a vote, so that it is clear what we are voting on (some of this overlaps with the response from SadCatCapital just now):

  1. How will the Seed Words project be structured; will it be held/ran by a DAO (ref. it being referred to as a sub-DAO) or are you intending to structure the ownership through a more traditional corporate entity? If not a crypto DAO, then I am not sure if sub-DAO is the best reference.

  2. How will the USD 500,000 (or a crypto equivalent) be raised? The proposal currently seems to imply that MC will be funding, ref. also the reference to it being a sub-DAO of MC (i.e. something owned by MC). Based on Mark’s comments, MC’s intention may however be to not actually fund anything directly themselves, but rather have an advisory role and assist with the funding round (but no direct funding from MC). If correct, I am slightly struggling to see how this would be a sub-DAO of MC.

  3. I understand how the Seed Words project may generate proceeds, but how will any proceeds made by/through the project flow back to the MC DAO treasury? If that is not the intention, grateful if you could elaborate how MC otherwise could have a direct economic upside in this relation.

Grateful if you could clarify the above. Many thanks.

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Hello,

Thanks for writing out the proposal. Can you summarise in one paragraph what exactly this is? Every section I read I get a bit more confused about the scope.

Is this correct:

It’s a free word-based browser game that pays out a crypto reward via a locked wallet’s seed phrase. Earns revenue from advertising partners. Starts as a game by SW, and moves to more of a platform for other game creators to join?

I have a few questions:

  1. How does this benefit MC holders? What do we get in return? XX equity split?

  2. Marketing costs look low-balled to me. Where is your traffic going to come from? Are you reliant on MC to be pushing this everywhere on their socials?

Edenhorde was much different. It had a well-renowned artist, large community backing from telegram chat with money, community whitelisting, NFT speculation appeal, very cool art, and lots of free marketing/word of mouth on socials. (Pentoshi as one example, bigger CT account pushing too)

I don’t see as much an appeal for word-based games. Seems like an entirely different market/audience.

  1. How does this generate revenue? Is it all through on-site advertisers? Flat fee? PPC?

Have you figured out what kind of advertisers would pay for spots on this site, what kind of volume they need, and what kind of budget they’re playing with?

  1. How many users would you consider this to be a success in phase two? What kind of advertising fees would you project for that number of users.

  2. How do you plan on getting traditional players from eg NY times to a crypto-based game? They already have the traffic versus Seed Words starting from zero.

  3. What experience do you have in any of:

  • A startup
  • Paid media/internet marketing
  • Brand building
  • Software development.

Curious as to how much hands-on building will be needed from our team. If it’s too much then I would rather we continue to focus on what we’re good at, invest in high beta shitcoins via seed with large returns, and work with world renowned artists + teams with products already in dev and mapped out.

  1. Where did the budget forecasts from advertising partners come from? Is this paid media, bum marketing, influencer?

  2. “We’re experimenting with a format that has never been tried” + “I definitely think it can generate enough money for me to retire–and that’s a big incentive.”

What kind of numbers do you think this can realistically generate, and why? Clawing back 1.7m from advertising revenue to break-even is a tall order, in my opinion.

The amount of time and effort needed to generate revenue for MC, in combination with the amount of energy our team needs to inject into this, makes it a pass from my point of view.

Thanks a lot,
AS

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